Chanté Joseph: 'The working world really destroyed me'
The Guardian's Pop Culture podcast host on why she quit her office job and how she built a multihyphenate freelance career
A few months ago I was onstage at 180 House interviewing freelance journalist Chanté Joseph, but it could have been a stand-up comedy night as Chanté’s commentary on freelancing was as witty and hilarious as it was honest and informative.
I had a hard task concisely introducing Chanté and her work because she has done so much over the last seven years. She is (or has been) an article writer, content creator, podcast host, live speaker, TV presenter, author, columnist, copywriter, creative consultant, social media marketer/influencer, script writer and story developer.
In the live interview I asked her about how she broke into the industry, how her approach to work changed when she got a late ADHD diagnosis, and how she deals with loneliness in London as someone without an office job or a team around her.
Below is an edited version of the interview, but an edited audio version is available if you subscribe to the premium newsletter for four little British pounds
Lara: Your LinkedIn is crazy long. There’s so much stuff on there. In 2013 you were on TV and radio — but as a member of Youth Parliament. So were you thinking of going into politics or journalism when you were young?
Chanté: I honestly thought I would get into politics. I used to do a lot of youth activism and campaigning. I was so convinced I would get into advocacy work and part of what changed that for me was looking at how black female MPs are treated in this country. Either side of the political aisle the racism and hatred they experience is rife. When I was doing a lot of media, talking about votes for 16 year olds or people having free access to transport, I would get a lot of abuse online. That pushed me away from politics unfortunately. I mean, obviously journalism is incredibly white and can be not a very welcoming space if you don’t come from a particular class or section of society and it wasn’t until I got to university and I met Liv Little who was studying there and she started gal-dem so it was through them that I broke into media. If it wasn’t for them, I don’t know if I would have ever got into writing.
L: I feel like because of that, a big part of what you do is empowering others. Have you always cared about mentoring others and helping them rise up with you?
C: At university I set up a publication called Bristol Is The New Black and we wrote articles and threw events and then I was president of Afro Caribbean Society, Labour Society. I used to host dinners with all the black girls I went to uni with just so we could hang out. I always wanted to do stuff that brought people in. And I remember doing an internship at Google in the summer and running a taster session after work and my manager was like ‘just do your work’ but I just get bored! But now the nature of my work is very solitary and sometimes I feel a bit lost so I’m working on something that will hopefully anchor me again.
L: Which is?
C: It’s called Strangers In The City, it’s a limited events series around London, we’ll do workshops, supper clubs, physical activities and you can only buy one ticket so it gets people outside their comfort zone and meeting new people. Whether you moved here last week or you’ve lived here a long time it can feel incredibly isolating. I know I feel like that. I live alone, I work by myself, which feels very lonely. Sometimes it gets to the weekend and my friends aren’t free for five Saturdays and I’m like… no-one’s that busy! So it’s about creating a space to make friends and try something new.
L: And so despite feeling lonely as a freelancer, why did you choose that over working the office job you had after uni at that creative agency?
C: So I got diagnosed with ADHD in 2020 so that coincided with me quitting my job. I realised my entire working life I just felt unfulfilled, unqualified, I never felt like I was doing well, I felt like I was drowning. Even though I could do the work I felt incredibly micro-managed and I just had really low self-confidence. The working world really destroyed me. I was such a vibrant excitable creative uni student and then I got into the working world and I just felt so bad about myself, like there was something wrong with me and I couldn’t function the way everyone else could. I was really struggling. And I was reading a lot about ADHD but it was the creative agency that spotted it in me and they actually paid for me to get the test and when I got my diagnosis, I quit. I needed to step away and figure out how to work, how to manage my energy levels and what I was going to do. I moved back in with my grandma and I started freelancing then it took off.
L: So how do you work, and manage your time and energy, and stay organised?
C: It’s very specific. For example, I never make lunch. I used to order these microwaveable meals because I know if I spend an hour preparing, making lunch, washing up, I’m just not going to be bothered to do anything. I find active task switching really tiring so I try and reduce task switching in my day to avoid getting fatigued or distracted. It sounds silly but I had to notice where do I get distracted and waste time and how can I stop that.
L: When you were in school you achieved so much, so it’s hard to believe you were doing all of that with ADHD.
C: Yeah that was masking. I knew when it came to school work my grades weren’t terrible but to get those As and Bs was so so sooo much work. When I finished my exams I was so exhausted because it took so much effort just to be at the acceptable level and all the other things I was doing helped to cover up feeling inadequate in other areas of the learning environment.
L: And so, back to your freelancing, how did you build your social media following?
C: I kind of blew up overnight because I used to post my writing all the time and make little graphics for it. But when George Floyd happened in summer 2020, I’d recorded a show with Channel 4 called How Not To Be Racist in January. So they sat on it for ages and suddenly released it just after George Floyd. It was a bittersweet moment — I was glad it was finally out but it was only getting the traction because of the time and the white guilt going around, so suddenly there were many more eyes on my work online which was great, but then with that came a lot of insane abuse too.
L: Where is all your work coming from now? Is it social media or writing or other gigs?
C: It’s hard to quantify exactly. I mean articles are not a huge part of it because I don’t write as much as I used to. Like once or twice a month I will pitch and write pieces but the rates are not good so I write because I enjoy it but not because I want to make money! You can make money writing books but in journalism… I mean it’s shame but it’s not sustainable for me. I do a lot of copywriting for a bank, and I do social media stuff, the podcast. I tend to work with streamers and bits of consulting on campaigns. I do live speaking and host panels too, so I have like 20 jobs. In order for me to survive I have to spread myself so thin. And I outsource as much as I can so I can deliver good work, whether that’s asking someone to do a bit of research for me or transcribe some interviews. I don’t have to do everything on my own if I’m being paid enough for the job.
L: If you have said yes to lots of work, how do you cope with burnout?
C: The biggest thing for me was asking for help from people because a lot of my anxieties come from letting people down and I realised that if I offload some things then I can do the job well. Also learning to say no to things when the effort isn’t worth the time or money.
L: And how do you handle having very little work in quieter periods?
C: That’s me every January. Every January I’m like ‘OK, I’m never going to work again. I’m going to be destitute’. Because there’s no work and I’m rubbing my pennies together like waiting for something to come. With freelancing you have to be a bit delusional. You have to be a bit insane and think money’s coming and things will happen. Like I know it’s a dry period but it’s like this every year — and every year I panic, and every year things are OK. I try to use the time to be a bit more creative and invest in my own ideas or travel.
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Since our conversation, Chanté has wrapped her final Guardian Pop Culture podcast series, and had a successful run of events for Strangers in the City. This week, she announced a second round of Strangers in the City events, which you can find more info about here.
Recommendation of the week
Humble The Great is a singer I’ve been following for almost a year now and since then his Instagram following has grown from a few thousand to 11.5K and counting. He announced his first UK headline tour this week (he’ll be in London November 14) and has a debut album on the way. Pink dress was the single that put him on the map but I can’t stop listening to his new tune everything that lacks in me. His girlfriend Amie Blu is also an emerging artist and I’m obsessed with her song Are We Alright? so be sure to give both artists in this power couple a listen.
And a reminder of some events
Tuesday 24th September, 7pm, AllBright Mayfair — How Work Works with Dr Michelle P King
I can’t wait to dive into Michelle’s book in this talk and ask her about how to navigate workplace politics, and how to approach work so that you progress in your career without compromising your integrity. It’s a book I wish I had years ago and one that I think is essential reading no matter what stage of your career.
If you want to attend for a discounted price of £9 instead of £30, get in touch with me and I will arrange this for you
Wednesday 25th September, 5:30-6:30pm, Journo Resources [online] — How To Secure A Scoop (And Turn It Into A Commission) by Lara Olszowska
I’m giving a talk for the wonderful Journo Resources newsletter and I’m very excited - if not a tiny bit nervous - to give my first talk. It’s different to moderating and hosting where I get to ask all the questions. This time, I need to be ready with all the answers! Would love to see you there (virtually) if this talk interests you. If you can’t watch live, you can still buy a ticket and receive the recording to watch when it suits you.
To join this event online, tickets are £6 and can be booked here.